Zcash founder talks about privacy, artificial intelligence, and how ZEC can become the "crypto Bitcoin."

Original Title: Zcash Founder on Privacy, AI, and How ZEC is "Encrypted Bitcoin"

Original Source: Bankless

Original Compilation: Baihua Blockchain

Today, more than a decade after the birth of cryptocurrency, we stand at a delicate crossroads: on one hand, there is the full-scale involvement of Wall Street capital and the rapid evolution of the technological underpinnings; on the other hand, the original Cypherpunk ideals are struggling under the weight of complex user experiences and regulatory pressures.

In this interview, Zuko, the founder of Zcash and a pioneer in the field of crypto privacy, shares his profound insights on the current state of the industry. He not only reflects on whether the crypto movement is repeating the mistakes of Linux but also delves into how privacy has evolved from a "technical feature" to a "survival option" in an era of rampant AI computing power.

Through a dissection of Moxie's user experience logic and an analysis of Zcash's governance experiments, Zuko paints a picture of a future that transcends mere financial speculation and returns to digital sovereignty. This is not just a conversation about technology; it is a metaphysical exploration of how human civilization can maintain free will in a high-pressure surveillance environment.

1. Reflection on the Current State of the Crypto Movement: Are We Repeating the Mistakes of Linux?

Host: Zuko, welcome back to Bankless. You have been deeply involved in the crypto industry for over a decade, and it's been 13 years since you built Zcash. Looking back from the perspective of 2026, do you think our crypto movement has achieved its original goals? Have we succeeded?

Zuko: To be honest, that's a leading question, and you probably don't expect me to give a positive answer. Hearing you ask that makes me feel somewhat frustrated and pessimistic. It reminds me of the history of Linux. Back then, Linux was a great movement aimed at empowering ordinary people and liberating technological barriers. But looking at the current landscape, it has largely become some underlying software that Google runs its servers on.

Host: It sounds like the idealism of the Linux movement has faded.

Zuko: Because it hasn't really helped ordinary users, nor has it scaled up enough to empower the masses. While software engineers are still keen on using it, for non-professionals, today's Linux hasn't substantially improved their digital lives. If we allow this trend to continue, cryptocurrency in 15 years might be the same: only a few giant financial institutions using blockchain to optimize costs, while 99.9% of ordinary people gain no real power or benefit from this technology. That would be a terrible outcome.

Host: So what do you think has been the real progress we've made over the past decade?

Zuko: I'm a tech person. What I find most gratifying is that cryptocurrency has funded a large number of cutting-edge cryptographic technologies. For example, the zero-knowledge proofs (ZKP) pioneered by Zcash have since been pushed into deeper realms by the Ethereum ecosystem. Without the funding and organizational structure provided by cryptocurrency, DARPA, universities, or giant companies wouldn't have developed these achievements in the past decade.

Host: So in your view, the advancement of cryptography is the biggest victory, rather than the current market size?

Zuko: Yes. But this is actually a "mild praise." It's like we've improved the Linux kernel but haven't really made the world a better place.

Host: Some might argue that price charts and Wall Street's entry are victories. For instance, Bitcoin has become a non-government-controlled digital gold, or the ETFs and RWA (Real World Asset Tokenization) pushed by Larry Fink.

Zuko: I see these as means to improve Wall Street. If it can improve the lives of ordinary people in some way that I care about, then that's great, but currently, those signs are not obvious.

2. The Bottleneck of User Experience (UX): Why Moxie's Critique Still Resonates?

Host: What important aspects do you think we have overlooked in the crypto space?

Zuko: Absolutely the user experience part of the Cypherpunk vision. I often mention Moxie Marlinspike's (founder of Signal) viewpoint. He pointed out that the dream of Cypherpunk has stalled because there is a fatal flaw in the logic of this group. Their approach is: first, create tools that work for themselves; second, teach the rest of the world to become like them.

Host: This "elitist" path is indeed difficult to reach the masses.

Zuko: Moxie says this will never succeed. You must provide people with tools that fit their current situation without forcing them to change. If you have less than a hundred million users, you are wasting your time because you are not impacting the world at all. The current crypto industry is repeating this mistake: we create complex systems that protect freedom, privacy, and autonomous choice, and then expect ordinary people to learn how to use them.

Host: So cognitive load becomes the biggest barrier.

Zuko: Exactly. If cognitive load is close to zero, that's a good user experience. I remember Brian Armstrong once told me his regulatory response strategy: at least have a hundred million users. This aligns with Moxie's logic.

Host: From a long-term perspective, Ethereum is trying to expand beyond decentralized finance into areas like decentralized identity, computation, and AI. How far do you think this Cypherpunk vision can go?

Zuko: I hope it can go all the way because it relates to whether our descendants can grow up in a more stable and civilized society. The success of Signal has inspired me. The idea behind Signal is that the user interface (UX) should reflect the underlying reality. If you are chatting on a non-encrypted software, an honest UI should display the avatars of you, your friends, the company CEO, and the system administrator in the chat box.

Host: That sounds very intuitive and chilling.

Zuko: If the CIA is listening, their avatar should also appear. Signal just corrects this "honesty." Current social platforms, like Twitter or Telegram, are actually "honeypots." If you are chatting with five friends in a Telegram group, since it is not end-to-end encrypted by default, Pavel Durov's face should actually appear in the chat box. People need privacy, and it can be technically achieved; the key is whether we can provide an interaction experience that is on par with Silicon Valley giants.

3. The Privacy Paradox in the Age of AI: When Algorithms Can Read Your Financial Intentions

Host: Are you optimistic about the future, especially now that AI is changing everything?

Zuko: I am optimistic. While AI may make the installation and configuration of Linux easier and UX no longer a problem, AI also brings new risks.

Host: Are you referring to AI's manipulation of information?

Zuko: A few days ago, there was a case where a user asked ChatGPT to correct a tutorial. The tutorial involved how to use disposable phone number services to protect personal information. Besides correcting errors, ChatGPT proactively deleted all content related to disposable phone numbers and cryptocurrencies, reasoning that these tools "could be used for abuse and fraud."

Host: That is indeed very dystopian.

Zuko: This is the nightmare scenario where AI does not provide you with what you want. Most current AIs follow a Web2 business model: relying on advertising and user lock-in. When AI deeply integrates your emails, calendars, and financial data, it can not only predict your behavior but also guide your intentions.

Host: So what different solutions can cryptocurrency provide?

Zuko: Cryptocurrency offers a completely new funding model. Although it is still experimental, it attempts to break free from the extraction logic of Web2. We need to establish a positive cycle of "pay-per-use + open competition + no lock-in."

Host: Zcash's recent price performance has been very eye-catching. Does this also reflect a shift in market sentiment?

Zuko: Yes. Such a large-scale price signal is hard to fake; it proves that people do care about privacy. As AI tools can easily associate on-chain addresses, the originally transparent ledger becomes extremely dangerous. People are beginning to realize that privacy is not an "optional feature" but a survival necessity.

4. The Metaphysics of Value Storage: The Mystery of Privacy Options and "Static Value"

Host: Many people have misconceptions about privacy protection. They often understand privacy as "cutting links during transactions," similar to the concept of mixers.

Zuko: This is exactly what I want to correct. Many people try to transfer from Ethereum to a new address, thinking that after some operations in between, they are safe. But in the age of AI, this "Value in flight" can hardly achieve true privacy. AI can easily see through your disguise by associating your intentions and signals at both ends.

Host: So what should the correct logic be?

Zuko: You can only gain privacy from "Value at rest." I have a somewhat metaphysical viewpoint: if you hold ETH and plan to transfer it, your intention is clear, and AI can understand it. But if you choose to convert part of your assets into ZEC for long-term holding without a clear plan for the next step, AI will be blinded.

Host: Because the act of holding itself cuts off the continuity of intention.

Zuko: Exactly. This is the "privacy option." You don't need to hold forever, but you need to hold without future usage intentions. Just like your checking account, you won't spend it all; you will keep a certain balance. From the perspective of adversarial information theory, it is reasonable to keep 1-2 months of living funds in a privacy pool.

Host: The example you mentioned earlier about the Zashi wallet and its integration with Near Intents seems to demonstrate the practicality of this "static privacy."

Zuko: That example touched me deeply. When I needed to make an anonymous payment for Proton Mail, I didn't need to ask the other party to accept Zcash. I just needed to scan the code in the Zashi wallet and complete the payment through Near Intents. To the outside world, this was just an ordinary transfer, while my asset source and personal information remained in the privacy pool. This is the power brought by UX priority.

5. Zcash's Governance Experiment: Development Fund, Cross-link, and the "Encrypted Bitcoin" Debate

Host: Let's talk about Zcash's governance. Zcash has a well-known "Development Fund" mechanism, which is seen as sacrilege in the Bitcoin community.

Zuko: Zcash mimics Bitcoin's total supply of 21 million and halving mechanism, but the difference is that we allocate 20% of new coin output to the development fund. As the price of ZEC rises, the scale of this fund has significantly increased, providing ample fuel for the ongoing development of the protocol and avoiding the "death spiral" that many projects fall into during bear markets.

Host: But this mechanism has also sparked considerable controversy, especially regarding power distribution.

Zuko: Indeed. Zcash's social contract undergoes a major discussion every four years. We have experienced an evolution from funding the founding team to funding non-profit organizations, and now to being controlled by a committee and token voting. As an experiment, I am pleased to see it trying different models.

Host: Recently, there has been much discussion about the meme "Encrypted Bitcoin." What do you think of this label?

Zuko: I really like this meme. The fewer words, the stronger the power.

Host: But some are concerned that the Cross-link mechanism you are promoting (adding staking on top of mining) will undermine Bitcoin's pure PoW image.

Zuko: I am trying to respond in a "jiu-jitsu" manner. Cross-link is not meant to become PoS but to strengthen the sustainability and credibility of the 21 million cap. Whether Bitcoin's 21 million cap can be maintained in the long run is actually opaque because when block rewards approach zero, whether transaction fees alone can support the security net remains unknown.

Host: And Zcash is trying to solve the dual problems of privacy and long-term security at the protocol level.

Zuko: Yes. Ethereum struggles to add privacy layers without leaking information due to underlying design issues, like putting tape on a leaking boat. Zcash was born to make privacy a native attribute of the blockchain.

Host: Zuko, thank you for sharing today. Your commitment to Cypherpunk values is admirable.

Zuko: Thank you. Finally, I want to tell the audience: go convert an amount equivalent to your checking account into ZEC and store it in your privacy wallet. You are not only protecting yourself but also contributing to building a better future. Let's "Zodle" together (the slang for holding coins in the Zcash community).

Host: Go Zodle, folks. Of course, this is not financial advice; the crypto market is highly risky, so please proceed with caution.

Through our in-depth conversation with Zuko, it is clear that the true value of cryptocurrency does not lie in how much it can save Wall Street in settlement costs, but in whether it can build an impenetrable firewall for individuals in the digital age. In an era where AI algorithms are becoming increasingly sophisticated and can easily "read minds" and associate transaction intentions, privacy is no longer a fixation of a few geeks but a fundamental tool for protecting personal choice.

The "static value privacy" logic represented by Zcash challenges the outdated notion of privacy as merely a process in transaction intermediaries, elevating it to a "privacy option." Although there are still many challenges in user experience and governance paths, as Zuko emphasizes, only when the cognitive load of privacy tools is reduced to zero and can serve hundreds of millions of ordinary users can the Cypherpunk vision truly be realized.

In this new frontier built by code, "Zodling" is not only a way to store wealth but also a silent vote on digital sovereignty.